Turning Analyst Relations into Market Traction

   

Drew: Hello, Renegade Marketers! If this is your first time listening, welcome, and if you're a regular listener, welcome back. Before I present today's episode, I am beyond thrilled to announce that our second in-person CMO Super Huddle is happening November 6th and 7th, 2025. In Palo Alto last year, we brought together 101 marketing leaders for a day of sharing, caring, and daring each other to greatness, and we're doing it again! Same venue, same energy, same ambition to challenge convention, with an added half-day strategy lab exclusively for marketing leaders. We're also excited to have TrustRadius and Boomerang as founding sponsors for this event. Early Bird tickets are now available at cmohuddles.com. You can even see a video there of what we did last year. Grab yours before they're gone. I promise you we will sell out, and it's going to be flocking awesomer!

You're about to listen to a recording from CMO Huddle Studio, our live show featuring the flocking awesome B2B marketing leaders of CMO Huddles. Analyst relations is a long game, and one that pays off when it's done right. In this episode, Dan Lowden, Lorie Coulombe, and Lynn Tornabene share how they build trust one briefing at a time, align internal teams around the message, and use every touchpoint to refine their market position. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. You'll be supporting our quest to be the number one B2B marketing podcast. All right, let's dive in.

Narrator: Welcome to Renegade Marketers Unite, possibly the best weekly podcast for CMOs and everyone else looking for innovative ways to transform their brand, drive demand, and just plain cut through, proving that B2B does not mean boring to business. Here's your host and Chief Marketing Renegade, Drew Neisser.

Drew: Boom! Welcome to CMO Huddle Studio, the live streaming show dedicated to inspiring B2B greatness. I'm your host, Drew Neisser, live from my home studio in New York City. Today, we're unpacking the often overlooked art of analyst relations, whether you're trying to climb that coveted Magic Quadrant, secure a mention in a Forrester Wave, or simply ensure analysts aren't spreading misconceptions about your offering. You want to lean in for this conversation that might just redefine your 2025 marketing strategy. So with that, let's bring on Dan Lowden, CMO of Blackbird.AI, and a returning guest who's previously appeared on many shows, including Marketing as a Business Driver and Cybersecurity Marketing. Hello, Dan, how are you and where are you this fine day?

Dan: Hello, Drew. Good to see you, my friend. I am in Summit, New Jersey today.

Drew: I love it. All right, home base, making it happen. We're almost time for golf season. Just saying, just saying, I cannot wait. There we go. All right, anyway, let's talk about your approach to engaging analysts. Do you focus on briefings, inquiries, relationships, all of the above? Just walk us through your approach.

Dan: Yeah, I mean, this is something that's near and dear to my heart. I've been involved with analyst relations for a long time, over 20 years, and it can be a strategic part of a company's success if you do it right, if you invest the time and energy, get to know the analyst, understand who are the best analysts to speak to that are relevant to your area of expertise, and the company category that you want to become a leader in. So, you know, for me, I've committed a lot to this space, and it has contributed in a massive way to a lot of the startups I've been a part of. I can honestly say for the startups that I've been a part of, it has helped lead to an acquisition because we built a strategic relationship with the analyst firms and told our story, shared everything. So if you do it right, it can create massive value to the company. If you ignore it or don't spend the time on it, it could potentially be a disaster if you're not positioned right. So we do all the above. It's important to make sure they know who you are, what you're doing, that they can trust you, that you share content with them, things that they can use in their reports, and that they come to you with questions. And when the waves and the Magic Quadrants come up, you're in a better position because they know who you are. They have to remain neutral in most cases, but it's still important. I'll just say this: there are still some companies who will not buy from you if you are not named by Gartner, Forrester, or TAG Cyber, or in the cybersecurity world, CINet. If you're not participating in those things, they will not buy from you because it's too much risk if they make a decision and they don't have that backing. But then there are others who don't necessarily follow the analysts. So that's why you have to do other things in the community. So you have to do it all. You have to do it really well and commit to it. And that's where it's been very successful for me in the past.

Drew: So it feels like one part of the goal is de-risking. If you're a startup, taking the risk out of buying you because someone else has given you that blessing as a viable solution, so that feels good. The thing that's also clear to me is it doesn't feel like there are any shortcuts here.

Dan: There really aren't. You have to spend the time. I would say this: like every one of the companies I've been a part of, yes, we've had to invest in and have a contract with Gartner, with Forrester, and with a couple of other firms. With my current company at Blackbird.AI, we are not a customer of either of those analyst firms, but I talk to them and brief them about once a month, once a quarter, depending on who they are and if we have research that's valuable to them. So I still get a chance to get in front of them. They want to hear about new categories and new products, new services, new trends, especially around AI and cybersecurity. So as a young startup, you can engage with them without having a contract. But at some point in time, when you get enough momentum behind you, it makes sense because you can really get a lot more out of the relationship if you do more things with them, if you hear feedback from them, if they help you on your roadmap, if they review your materials or your pitch. They give you feedback because they're talking to hundreds of customers a month. And if they like your story, if they see you doing good work, and if you build trust with them, they will say, "Hey, here's one of the companies you should talk to if you have this problem." So it drives opportunities our way. It drives leadership our way. And in my mind, it positions us well when we go for investments, right, in Series A, B, or C, or when we potentially are being considered to be acquired. Like if they look at a Magic Quadrant or Forrester Wave and see that you're positioned well, it opens up the door for potential acquirers to knock on your door because you have something they don't. They need speed to market, they need the expertise, they need the technology. And if you're positioned well, you're in a good place to have a good conversation with them. And that's how it's worked out for me. Like I said, at least for the companies that I've worked for, analyst relations efforts have paid off.

Drew: And it sounds like this is a two-way street, and you have currency, and they have currency, and your currency could be information and data. And it sounds like that's been one case, and the other currency is you can buy a subscription and sort of, technically, they're separate, right? I mean, you're not really buying a seat at the table, or are you?

Dan: To be honest, I mean, I don't think you are. I think you need to be recognized. You have to be out there in the marketplace. And if they see you doing the right things, and if they trust in your stories, and you share customer stories with them, you're going to be in a better position, right? I honestly feel, especially the analysts that I've worked with, they're really good people. They are trying to learn their part of the industry that you're in, and if you're the expert, they're going to come to you for data. They're going to come and ask you questions. They're going to say, "I have this report coming up. Do you have any data that we can include in it?" And when you get to that point in the relationship with analysts, that, to me, is when really good things can happen because you're helping them and they're helping you, right? Does it influence them at all? I think somewhat, but at the same time, I've worked with many analysts over the years, and they try to stay neutral, but I think if they like what you're doing, they will certainly include you in the right conversations.

Drew: Right? I mean, I suspect that being a customer gets you that first call. They might agree to answer the call, but they're not going to continue to take your call if there's not a good exchange of value, you're not bringing something to the table.

Dan: Exactly. But again, with Blackbird, we don't pay Gartner, Forrester, or anything at this point, but I have a briefing with them. I just reach out and say, "Hey, I'm in conversation with these analysts. They want a briefing from me." So every three months, I can have a briefing with them, and it doesn't cost me a cent. They believe, obviously, over time, I will become a customer. I believe I will too, as the company continues to grow. But for an early startup, you can still get their attention, but you have to show them value. You have to show them you have something unique, and that you have momentum, and that you have a good story to tell, and that they trust you, and that's really important. You can't go at this flippantly. If you do, you're going to get hurt.

Drew: Yeah, exactly. And sort of going back to this shortcut, the absence of or the lack of shortcuts, it feels like you would do with any relationship. You're building a relationship. You're building a relationship of trust, and the building blocks of that often are the data that you have. But there's also this other part, which is listening to them and saying, "Hey, you're the expert. We'd love to learn from you." And so as much as people want to believe that they don't like it when people suck up, a lot of people just like to be heard.

Dan: Yeah, I agree. I agree. So that's where you just have to show, there are so many cybersecurity companies. You have to show where you're different, where you're having an impact. And that's where picking the right company to represent is really, really important, right? And then there are organizations like TAG Cyber that I mentioned that I don't consider them. They're more an advisor to us, right? They really do a lot of similar work. They talk to a lot of customers, they publish a lot of content. But for me, they are former CSOs themselves. So to me, that is a perfect way to engage with another type of, I would say, analyst or advisory firm to help grow our network and expand our presence out there, so that people see and hear from us in multiple ways. That's why there's no silver bullet. As you said, you have to work hard. You have to do lots of things around analyst relationships and all the other things around marketing to get in front of your prospect, to build trust, to have them say, "Hey, these guys look like they know what they're doing. We've got to work with them."

Drew: Got it. All right, well, thank you for all of that. Now we're going to move on to Lorie Coulombe, who is the Senior Vice President of Marketing at Equity Shift, and an industry expert who's graced our stage before to delve into the topic of introverted CMOs. Hello, Lorie, wonderful to see you again.

Lorie: Hi Drew, it's great to see you too.

Drew: And so how are you and where are you this fine day?

Lorie: I'm doing really well, and I'm in New York City.

Drew: All right. Well, you heard Dan and Dan's approach. I'm curious, what resonated with you?

Lorie: So much of it! Actually, I think, you know, one of you taking the time, putting the energy towards getting to know the analysts, understanding who are the best ones to speak to for your industry or sector, and the fact that you know you have to share with them something that's unique, your unique value proposition, so it draws their attention. And I think trust is really key. So what Dan spoke about in building trust with them, them feeling like they trust you and what you're telling them. So when they look at you versus your competitors, they say, "You know what, we got it. We know what Equity Shift is all about, and trust in what we're being told and the data that's being shared with us."

Drew: And as you're talking about, I'm thinking about these wise analysts, and you're presenting to them, and I wonder, is it saying "here's why we're different," or "here's why we think we're different"? What do you think?

Lorie: Well, for me, it's "here's how, first, why we believe that we're different," and it becomes a dialog. So you want to hear from them how they understand and perceive your company and is what you're telling them about your differentiators really resonating with them.

Drew: So I think this is really important, because this is not—this is a sales pitch, but it's very subtle.

Lorie: Yes, and you know, my background is in investor relations and financial communications, so understanding the nuance of storytelling, whether it's to the investment community or to the analyst community, you really have to understand who you're speaking to, and as you get to know them, you know you understand also how they perceive your company, and you can work internally and make sure that what you're doing in the strategies you're implementing will resonate with that. And like Dan spoke about too, he's, you know, he was checking in every quarter with them, setting up that schedule or that dialog on a regular basis is critical.

Drew: I wonder, are they? Because I've never, I mean, I've talked to analysts, but in interviewing them for various things, on categories and so forth, they've never actually had to pitch a company to them. Are they honest with you about what they think of your pitch?

Lorie: It depends. When, in my last CMO role, we were building a category story and building category positioning. So it wasn't really clear. It was more they were skeptical about us, and so they were quick to share that skepticism, but in terms of their or my visibility into their level of truthfulness, you know, I had to take it at face value. And you know, the great thing is you can also when you're doing—doing it, whether virtually, on camera or in person, you can also read their expressions.

Drew: Right? So you know what they say out there and so. And I think that's an important part. It's funny, we didn't really cover that. They're out there in the world. They're public with their points of view, and you better understand that before you talk to them, right? Absolutely. So one of the things that's interesting here is that it's not just you, the marketer, going to the analyst and you know it there's a—this is a team effort. Sometimes it's the CEO, sales, product people, and again, because it's a two-way street. So I'm curious, how do you align the teams and help them understand the importance and the subtleties of these conversations?

Lorie: Well, I look at it the same way, again, I did when I was in investor relations. It's helping the executives, and, you know, the head of product or sales, understand like the conversations that maybe I'm having, and then also, if there's the opportunity to bring someone from the C-Suite into the conversation with them, like, that's ideal. I don't know that's a rarity in my experience, but I think it has to be sharing. You know, it's a feedback loop, I think especially with my own team, them understanding the conversations I'm having and educating them. So as they're working with their sales counterparts or the product development counterparts, they're also sharing what we're hearing or what we're hearing from the analyst community. So it's not just at the executive level, but it's at, you know, within the team as well.

Drew: A couple of questions that follow up on this one. One is, I'm curious, why would it be hard to get us like your CEO to join one of these conversations?

Lorie: No, I was thinking of the flip side, like, does the analyst necessarily want to hear from the CEO directly? The CEO, in my mind, is not the roadblock. It's that. It's the analyst saying, "No, no, I don't need to." I would want my CEO or my head of product to be in there.

Drew: Right being, though, from the sales standpoint, I would think that a really good head of sales would recognize that having the blessing of a Gartner or Forrester or you're in would would be hugely valuable. Is it your experience that they get it? Yes, okay, so they understand. So do you bring a salesperson to that thing? Or is that just sort of forbidden? Because the analyst will say, "Hey, not that guy, bring the product person."

Lorie: I think it depends. I and maybe Dan or Lynn can speak to this more than I can is, you know, do you want to have the head of sales in there doing a sales pitch, like, can you trust your head of sales to come in and be more objective in the conversation than trying to pitch the analyst on our business?

Drew: That's such a great word for this—objective, and I think that's a good place for us to wrap up this part of the conversation, but we'll come back to it, because that is a mindset that's really hard for a lot of people to get their heads around. So all right, with that, let's welcome Lynn Tornabene, CMO of Anteriad, who is joining us for the first time, even though Lynn and I have been friends for over 20 years. Anyway, Lynn, welcome. How are you and where are you this fine day?

Lynn: Well, I am fantastic, Drew, because I love seeing you and seeing my peers and talking about this topic. And I am in Brooklyn, New York today.

Drew: I love it all right, just across the river. Okay, you've now heard Dan and Lorie and what they had to say. What do you hear that resonated and what else can we talk about relative to this in your experience?

Lynn: Well, I think Dan and Lorie did an excellent job of outlining many of the ways that you can engage with analysts and the importance of that. A couple of things that come to mind that they hadn't mentioned yet, are the other channels that you can use to engage with analysts. And by that, I mean email. For example, we do an email newsletter out to analysts, and not just those that we engage with with either paid accounts or even on a monthly briefing basis, but those we don't talk to as often, because doing that kind of newsletter can keep you in front of the analysts and, you know, advise them of what's going on in your company, what's going on with your customers and the market on a more ongoing basis.

Drew: Okay, love it, and because it's sort of like a drip campaign, where you're—but how we all get emails? We all get hundreds of emails. How do you make sure that these emails actually are delivered, are opened, and delivering value for the—we'll call them the secondary, the second tier of analysts and maybe even the first?

Lynn: Well, that's our job as marketers, isn't it, to understand our audience and to create messaging that will resonate with them and be relevant enough that they open it. We certainly ask the analyst, when we speak to them, those that we speak to on a regular basis, "Did you get the newsletter?" We can obviously see if they've opened it or not, but we will ask them about that. You know, "Was that content useful for you? Anything else you'd like to see on that?" So, kind of mini focus groups to make sure we're constantly tuning the content, and then we're tracking, you know, if they're opening, if they're clicking on things, but it's really about focusing on the things that are relevant to analysts. Right in any conversation, when an analyst wants to know is what makes you different? Who do you serve and why do you win? So that they know when to recommend you. So if you can provide them with that information, both in person and briefings, maybe when you see them at an event or through the email channel, that is useful for them.

Drew: What differentiates you? Who do you serve, and why do you win? Yes, those are really, really important and simple guides to doing that. I'm just thinking about your average newsletter writer. I'm asking this question, who's a junior person who's never engaged with an analyst who doesn't know this audience very well, necessarily, and then getting to the point where they actually have an insight that an analyst would care about. So this is an important audience. You can't just, you know, put that into ChatGPT and say, "Hey, what do analysts care about? And write a newsletter for them," because that's not going to work.

Lynn: It's very important that this is just part of your overall cadence and strategy. And to your point, it can't be done in a silo or in isolation by someone who's not involved with your AR program. And so on my team, my SVP of corporate communications, Dee Bloom, she is the one that actually drives that newsletter every month. And we also have an external agency that we partner with, Spotlight AR, and they also assist us with reviewing that material and making sure it aligns with their understanding of what analysts are looking for.

Drew: Right? Okay, so this is—it's just funny because I hadn't thought about this before, so I apologize to go at you on it, because, but again, lots of newsletters are here. This is an audience. It's way up here, and really smart, and they will find the smoke. You mentioned other channels. Is there anything else other than email that you were thinking about when you mentioned that?

Lynn: Sure, one of the things that we do with analysts is an analyst day. So that is where you engage with one analyst, typically for either eight hours, if it's a full day, or we typically break it into two, four-hour days with a break in between. And that's where the analyst is actually presenting to us as a team. And this is where, to Lorie's point, this is where we get sales involved, not to present, but to listen. And the analyst is telling you what they see in the marketplace, what they see as your strengths and weaknesses, what they see as the competitive landscape. This is really a way to get the analysts engaged in a different way, to get those learnings a little bit broader within your executive team and your company, allow other people who don't normally engage with analysts to ask questions of the analyst in those engagements. And it is also part of the strategy of engaging analysts in a way where they feel that they're part of your ideation and part of your market and product planning. Because, you know, again, analysts are human, and we'd like to be heard, as you said, Drew, and so if they feel that what they're providing to you as information is then reflected back in the future and how you're looking at the market or maybe even your product roadmap, you know that's something that can help with that rapport and that relationship over time.

Drew: So let's say, imagine this scenario where the strengths and weaknesses that they've identified are ones that you disagree with. Have you had a circumstance where you were able to move an analyst from here to there, and if so, how do you get them? Because you can't say, "Hey, you're wrong, we're right, you're missing it." So what's that process look like? Have you had that experience?

Lynn: I don't think anyone who's managed an analyst relations program or dealt with analysts, or, again, other humans as they are, has not faced a situation where they felt that they were being perhaps rated unfairly or not in the way that they think that they should be rated on a particular criteria or in a particular market. And so I think that's just part and parcel of what AR is like—that will happen. And it really comes down to probably two things. So one is be really open to that feedback, because maybe you are wrong, right? Just because you think that you don't have that weakness or that something is a strength? Remember that the analyst's job is to talk to customers of yours and prospects all of the time, so they're hearing from the market and they're talking to the other vendors. So you might need to take a step back and really think about, you know, are you really understanding your true strengths and weaknesses? And then the second one would be, if you do believe that they are incorrect in how they're viewing it, you know, it's our job, then, like with any other audience, to communicate over time, through our relationship, tune how we communicate to enable them to maybe be more open to changing their mind or their point of view, but also always be aware that that may not happen, and you need to make sure that you can manage your communications internally if it does not.

Drew: It's funny. I'm reminded of a story I heard early in my career of—and you'll appreciate this—that Bill Bernbach, the founder of Doyle Dane Bernbach, used to carry a little piece of paper in his pocket that said "they may be right." And it was just a reminder that whenever he got client feedback, there's a possibility and not to have the knee-jerk reaction which we've all experienced, which is, "What are you talking about?" All right, let's flip this around and say, now we do have a positive analyst report. I'm wondering in your career, when was a moment where you leveraged that most effectively? You got a positive report, and what did that success look like?

Lynn: Oh, that's a good question. I would say, I'll look back not too far in the past and just in the current role that I'm in right now at Anteriad. And we were in the first intent data wave for B2B at Forrester that came out roughly two years ago. And actually the second wave just came out. We felt that was very successful for us, because it was a new wave. We also had a new brand, which can be, again, difficult to get in analyst reports, and we had just been building up our program and our relationship. And so we leveraged that in several different ways. So one is making sure that you realize that those analyst reports are valuable, both for prospects but also your current customers, right, as they look to renew. And so to use those analyst reports in your sales plays, but also in your QBRs, and make sure, of course, you're leveraging the badges everywhere that you can. You know, we promoted it on social. We promoted it in programmatic ads on our website. You know, all those things that, of course, we'll always do, but don't forget that your audience isn't just your prospects and customers, but it's also your employees, right? So we celebrated those positive results. We want the employees to be excited, to be proud to be working here, calling out the teams that make it happen, and then really realize what it means for their product and the company. And as I believe Dan mentioned, you know, make sure that the investment community, whether you're private, PE, VC, public, that they know about it as well, and why it really matters. And again, no matter how you're leveraging it, make sure you set the context that you focus on what this report means for your differentiation, which I believe we did well in the past, because you don't want to leave it to the market, your competitors, or even your salespeople to set that context.

Drew: I love it. There's a couple of things I just want to put a punctuation point on. One is the notion of the value of this to your current customers. We're in a very difficult economic environment. Hanging on to customers and expanding customers is so important. And what a great review says to the customers is "you made the right choice. You're so smart," right? And that's huge right now, because a lot of companies' growth is going to come from, if they're going to grow this year, it's going to be from existing customers. So one, just reminding them how smart they are. Two, we're in a moment of incredible uncertainty, and employees are asking all sorts of questions about what's going to happen to them if the economy goes south for any reason. So being able to tell employees, "Hey, we just got this improved ranking, yay. Aren't you great? You work for—is it?" It would be a very timely thing. It's universally true that it's always a good idea to celebrate your wins with your employees, because that can come back in spades. All right, amazing. Thank you for all of that. It's a moment in time now where I'm going to talk about CMO Huddles. CMO Huddles was launched in 2020. It's the only community of flocking awesome B2B marketing leaders, and that has a logo featuring penguins. Wait, what? Yeah. Well, a group of these curious, adaptable and problem-solving birds is called a huddle. And the leaders of CMO Huddles are all that and more, huddling together to conquer the toughest job in the C-Suite. There's a little pun there. Okay, so Dan and Lorie, you've been longtime Huddles. I'm wondering if you could share a specific example of how Huddles has helped you. Lynn, we'll give you an opportunity. I know you're new to the community. So Dan, Lorie, thoughts?

Lorie: I'll go first. So for me, one of the most amazing things about CMO Huddles has been the network of really smart and collaborative peers who I learn from with every peer huddle that I participate in. I would say too, the other benefit for me is the exposure we have to industry thought leaders and authors on topics like leadership and developing high-impact teams and getting different perspectives on marketing and the CMO role.

Drew: I love it. Well, thank you so much for that, Lorie. All right, Dan.

Dan: Yeah, I love CMO Huddles, Drew, and, you know, we've been working together for some time. To me, you know, as Lorie said, it's about the people, right? Like, we have a very difficult job. We're covering lots of different angles. We have lots of problems to solve. We don't have to solve them on our own, right? These Huddles enable us to talk about the challenges that we face or the successes that we're having, so that way we can all do better, right? And to me, I learn from every conversation, whether it's with a team or a group huddle or it's a one-on-one, where someone's struggling with a certain issue, and hey, that's an area that I've spent a lot of time on, or vice versa, I need help, and I can work with somebody who's had a lot more experience than me, so it's been a fantastic experience, and just good people.

Drew: I love it. Okay, Lynn, I don't want you to feel like you have to say something, but you're just getting started, but you've been so involved in the first month, which we appreciate.

Lynn: Well, I've been so involved because I see really the value. And as both Laurie and Dan said, it is really about the people. And look, it's really hard to be a CMO today. Not that it's not always been hard, but I just feel like it's just exponentially harder today. And so just knowing that there are other people facing the same challenges that I have, and that you can just be very authentic and open with either through our Slack channel or through our events or one-on-ones. That's just so valuable, I think, for us today.

Drew: I love it and appreciate and am excited to have your continued involvement. Anyway, if you're a B2B marketing leader who wants to build a strong, pure network like Lori talked about, or gain recognition as a thought leader like being on this show, and get your very own stress penguin, because it is a very hard job. Please join us at cmohuddles.com. Okay, we're back now. We're all three. We're all here. So I'm just wondering, as much as you want to believe that your companies are different, there's obviously other people who are saying what you're doing. What are some ways that you can try to stand out, because these analysts are covering dozens of companies. Any thoughts on that?

Lynn: I'm going to actually call back to what I said a little bit earlier about this idea of differentiation, because I think you stand out if you are really clear on again, who you serve, what makes you different, and why you win. Because not everyone, you know, frankly, does that, I think, in their briefings or in their conversations. And so if you can do that, you help the analyst with their day-to-day job, which is advising their clients when their clients have to make a business decision, strategy decision, or perhaps a purchase decision. So if you can make it easy for them to know, when should I recommend you? That's the way to really stand out.

Drew: Make it easy. And you really did, you know, it's like when, who and why, and just answer these basic questions that are really fundamental to their job. Okay. Dan, another thought on helping you stand out with analysts.

Dan: Yeah, and Lynn mentioned this, which I thought was great. We've done analyst days as well in the past, where you really get to know the analyst. If you spend face-to-face time with them, they come and present to you, so they have to do a lot of research on you and the competitors, which they've already done, but they get to it at a different level. It's at a deeper level, right? So they really get to know you, and they get to know your team. When an analyst comes and spends time with me, I have the CEO, I have the C-Suite there. I have our Head of Customer Success there, so that they get to see our true team and how, to be honest, how badass they are and how good they are, and, you know, how smart they are and how much we care. And it just takes the relationship to a different level, right? And that, to me, is really helpful. We also use them in quotes when we do press releases or things like that. So they're happy to be included in things that we want to go publish, and then again, if a report comes out, like we were just included in a Forrester threat intelligence landscape report. And Blackbird was the only narrative intelligence company included in a list of 29 companies. So we stood out, which is amazing. We license that report and we use it as a campaign, and our salespeople love it. It's one of the biggest downloaded reports, because normally you would have to spend, like, $3,000 if you are not a Forrester customer, to get it. So there's lots of things that you can do, I think, that can really show the analyst and the group that you're working with that, hey, this is really important. Your feedback to us is really important, and your work is important to us enough that we want to license it and we want to promote it because it helps them and it helps us.

Drew: All right, I love it. So Lori, we've been talking about all the good things to do, but every once in a while, folks screw it up, they make some mistakes when rolling out analyst relations, and I'm not saying you've ever had that space, but if you were speculating on common mistakes that companies might make when they're rolling out analyst relations, and these are things that could be avoided, what might those be?

Lorie: Yeah, I would say I think if it's your first time engaging in an analyst relations program, you need to understand that the communication is not one-directional, that it really is a relationship. And you have to tell your story and talk about your differentiators, but you also have to listen to them and build that relationship with them over time. It's also not—I think sometimes people want that immediate, like, oh, well, I had a meeting with them, so we're good. And this is more of a long game, and relationship building takes time. I mean, ask your salespeople, it takes time to build relationships to close a deal. So it's the same here.

Drew: So it's not one-directional, and it's not set and forget. Okay, anything else? Lynn, Dan, on terms of common mistakes to be avoided.

Dan: I mean, I would just add that this is a deep commitment, and you can't do it in bits and spurts. You know, as Lynn said, a newsletter—like I send out a personal note every month that summarizes, here's the reports, the blogs, the news that we were in, just to keep them up to date. And they always come back and say, "Thank you," right? So it's that consistent approach, which is really, really important. If you don't do that, you're gonna put yourself at risk.

Drew: And I was thinking about this when we were talking to Lynn, that if they have a position on your company and you are consistent, you're water on a rock, eventually you're going to make an impression. And so consistency really plays. Anything else Lynn on the common mistakes to avoid?

Lynn: Well, I think Dan mentioned this earlier, but I want to really highlight it is that it's not just about evaluative reports. You want to be a resource and your leaders to be a resource for the analyst when they're writing non-evaluative reports, so that they call you when they're thinking about something related to your category or your practice area, so that you're also mentioned in other types of reports that help, certainly with your branding and with your reputation, and it does help with that relationship, even though those may not be analysts who don't write evaluative reports, just having that larger relationship is very helpful. And I think people often just focus on the waves and the magic quadrants.

Drew: Right? This is sort of like basic PR 101, be a resource for the person. And what's interesting is you may think they have all the answers, and they may have all the connections to all the clients, but maybe not. They might just want you. And somebody mentioned this earlier, about, you know, they're talking to clients, but they also want to talk to—maybe they want to talk to one of your customers and/or somebody that you know that you can make an introduction to make it easier. So this bi-directional support system is coming clear, and the opposite of that is, here's the stuff, see ya. And so this is a lot of work and a lot of time to invest in. And so I'm curious now when we talk about measuring and budgeting for analyst relations, because what we just described is a sort of classic marketing challenge, which is the investment you make today may not pay off for 12 months, and that's hard, particularly say for PE firms and others to sort of when they want results in the, you know, every quarter. So talk about budgeting for the program and then the measurement and so forth. So let's focus on sort of the ROI of this. But Dan, how do you budget for a program, and then how do we measure success?

Dan: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is the success comes in many different forms, like feedback on the product that helps you adjust the roadmap to be more competitive, right? How do you measure that? That's a difficult thing, but, like, it's important you get it right, hearing that you're wrong about something, or that, hey, this message isn't getting through based off of, you know, their experience. Super, super helpful. But what it comes down to for me in any of these reports that we end up licensing, it's pretty straightforward, of, hey, if we're featured in a magic quadrant or a wave and we're going to license that report, I make sure we have everything approved, ready to go, all the ads, all the campaigns, because that report is valuable not only to us, but to all of our customers and prospects. So within 10 seconds of them launching it, my goal is to launch all of our assets, and then we can measure all of the people that download that report. And I will tell you that is always one of the top assets that we ever publish, because the inbounds that we get, the names that we get, the companies that come in that want access to that report, it opens up the door for a conversation, and a lot of times it turns into a customer because we provided them value. That's my goal, every time I connect with a prospect or a customer, is give them something of value. These types of analyst reports are incredibly valuable. I'll give you one example, another example, TAG Cyber. They came out with a report that says why CSOs need to pay attention to narrative attacks. It's a new threat vector. So coming from a former CSO of AT&T—that's who Ed Amoroso is—they listen to that, and it's a tremendous value to us. So leveraging that content, building trust with our prospects and customers, not just hearing it from us, but from their peers is incredibly important.

Drew: So I heard it, and it's so interesting that the sort of soft metrics of feedback on product and feedback on messaging, and how vital that can be, and how hard it is to get good feedback on those two things. That is, in some sense, if there's an expert out there, they are likely to be the one, right? Those are the soft metrics. And then obviously, when you get to the point where you're in a wave, then it's taking advantage of it. And I love your point about being ready, so that you can just really jump on that. Lynn, what about you in terms of managing expectations of the ROI of analyst relations?

Lynn: Managing expectations—that is definitely something to focus on, and can be a challenge. So, well, one, I think being selected as one of the most significant vendors in a market is extremely valuable no matter where you are on the map. So to your point of managing expectations in the ROI, one of the most important things, I think, is working with your executive team, in particular your board, making sure that they understand that value. And you will need to educate them often and set the proper context, because you don't want that freak out because, "Oh, you're on the map. But why are you over in this corner?" Because they often lose that context of you were being chosen as one of the most significant providers in a market, one of the top, usually 12 to 14 in a market, and that is what is valuable. But the other piece for measuring ROI, I think, as well, is remember that besides doing things like newsletters and conversations, you can also do surveys of analysts to track their sentiment over time, because one of the important things to understand is their sentiment. What do they think about you? Are they recommending you? Those kinds of things that don't show up necessarily in the reports? You can get a little bit more nuanced understanding through your conversations and perhaps their surveys to try to see what that sentiment changes as well.

Drew: It's so funny, because in many ways, this is just a complete parallel to your customer audience, right? Or your prospect audiences. You want to know that A, they're aware of you and B, that their sentiment and feelings about you are improving over time. It seems so obvious. It doesn't feel like demand gen, you know, leads tomorrow, though it feels like a program that's gonna take time. And so there is a little bit of, if they've never done it before, there's a little bit of, "Trust me, it's gonna happen" that goes on with this. But I imagine enough of them have a sense of, "Oh, yeah, okay. We want to be in—if you're not on the list, you are nobody." At least as far as that, a large swath of your customers are concerned. So let's think about the future a little bit, because it's not easy right now for analysts. People are feeling somehow or other empowered by generative AI to do sort of these things on their own. You know, the selling of information and packaging of insight is getting harder and harder and harder. How are you thinking about and any thoughts on the future of where analyst relations are evolving? And have you seen any change in the last 12 months?

Lorie: Well, I would say, I mean, you've raised a good point about AI, and what is it going to do to change the analyst community? I'm not sure, but it's already having an impact, and I think it's going to have a greater impact going forward. But I think that also, analysts—look, it's about building your category and your leadership in the category, so they still play an important role. I think it will come down to will the analyst community, will there just be one or two key players going forward, or will it be so scattered that they lose their impact and their trust factor with clients, your prospects, and within your industry and sector. So I, you know, I'm not sure, but I think they still play an important role, but it may be less important over time as more maybe non-traditional analysts start reviewing your company.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, it's just interesting, because people are now, when they're looking at buying decisions, a lot of folks are going into generative AI tool and saying, "Hey, I'm thinking about this is my problem. Give me five solutions that I should be considering." And you know now, one may argue that generative AI is probably influenced by the analysts already, and so you're kidding yourself to think that you can't deal with them. But I'm curious, Dan, if you thought about it all, you see this evolving, and if so, what can marketers do about it?

Dan: Yeah, I do. I mean, analyst relations have changed over the years. There's no question, right? I think they had a lot more power and influence 10, 20 years ago, and they still are very, very important. Let me just say that it's still very important as a part of your marketing strategy to engage with them, but I think now you have to engage with many more influencers, right, especially your customers, because they all talk to each other, right? And to me, that's where you got to spend a lot of your time working in these communities and be engaged. And for me, these CSO communities, like SCINET, is a CSO community, we have to engage with them, because it's a group of several hundred CSOs, and if you're a part of their conversations, it helps, right? It helps with the influence. I think analysts still help, but I think over time, they just have to continue to show more value because there's more competition out there. So I think AI, they have to look at how to leverage AI to make the customer experience better for end user accounts, big companies, as well as for the vendors, right? If we can add more value by leveraging AI, that, to me, would be a good strategy they should be thinking about.

Drew: You know, it's interesting. Speaking of analysts, we had a lunch huddle at Forrester, and one of the analysts shared some data with us on buying groups, and right now, so they were—one of their studies showed 22 people influencing a purchase decision, nine of whom are not in the organization, which is kind of mind boggling. And so I appreciate you broadening the lens. What we're talking about is the influence market and how important that is. So that includes whether it's a G2 or Trust Radius type resource, which is, in a way, kind of a sort of the democratized analysts versus—and then you've got your customers and prospects. So thinking about this as part of your influencer strategy is probably not a dumb idea. Lynn, any last thoughts on how you see things evolving?

Lynn: Well, I think analysts, one of the things that the industry analysts do really well is creating frameworks and approaches for how to apply best practices to things across the corporation. And I think that kind of content will still work well, at least for some period of time. I don't—I'm not bold enough to say how long, but as fodder for the kinds of questions people are asking today of AI agents and AI chatbots, right? They're looking for frameworks. They're looking for advisories on how to approach something. And so I think that content will likely be something that gets, you know, raised up, or, you know, visible for those kinds of questions. And so you still want to influence those frameworks and those approaches from the analyst standpoint. I mean, if two years from now, it's just instead of doing, you know, like the 100-question Excel survey for a wave or a Gartner quadrant, you have your agent talking to their agent and answering all the questions. I don't know if any of us will be sad if that part happens.

Drew: Interesting. All right, we're going agentic here. All right. Final words of wisdom when it comes to leveraging analyst relations. For folks who are just getting started on their analyst relation program?

Lorie: Yeah, remember, just as you're responsible within your company to tell your company story, they're your storytellers too, and think about them as being some of your best and strongest advocates for your company, just like your customers are. I think Dan mentioned, you know, customer testimonials, like having analyst testimonials and leveraging them, I think is really great opportunity.

Drew: Love it. Lynn, final words of wisdom.

Lynn: I'll go back to the point about setting the proper expectations internally, especially when you start a program with the cycle being 18 to 24 months for a report, you are not going to get in report within like two months. Even if there's a report coming out in two months, you're not going to be in it. You have to build that relationship so setting that expectation of the timescale, and then also, again, that being in the report is really what matters.

Drew: Yes, you just got to be in it to win it. And it's important, because you might forget it. It's like, we're not going to show up necessarily the first time in the very, very top square. Okay. Dan, final words of wisdom?

Dan: Yeah. I mean, to me, it's a major commitment. It needs to be a strategic part of your marketing plan and playbook. And if you do it right, it will help you grow with customers, with prospects. And as I shared earlier, it has helped in for the companies that I worked with get acquired, because we were positioned well as a part of these different waves, or magic quadrants and the like. And if you're positioned well, it opens up the door for a lot of investment conversations as well as acquisition conversations. So to me, it's invaluable and critically important for marketers to pay attention to.

Drew: And it is part of the Dan Lowden help playbook, which I have seen work over and over again. So all right, well, thank you, Dan. Lorie, Lynn, you're all amazing sports and thank you audience for staying with us.

To hear more conversations like this one and submit your questions while we're live, join us on the next CMO Huddle Studio. We stream to my LinkedIn profile—that's Drew Neisser—every other week.

Show Credits

Renegade Marketers Unite is written and directed by Drew Neisser. Hey, that's me! This show is produced by Melissa Caffrey, Laura Parkyn, and Ishar Cuevas. The music is by the amazing Burns Twins and the intro Voice Over is Linda Cornelius. To find the transcripts of all episodes, suggest future guests, or learn more about B2B branding, CMO Huddles, or my CMO coaching service, check out renegade.com. I'm your host, Drew Neisser. And until next time, keep those Renegade thinking caps on and strong!