The CMO as Chief Collaboration Officer

Drew: Hello, Renegade Marketers! If this is your first time listening, welcome, and if you're a regular listener, welcome back. Before I present today's episode, I am beyond thrilled to announce that our second in-person CMO Super Huddle is happening November 6th and 7th, 2025. In Palo Alto last year, we brought together 101 marketing leaders for a day of sharing, caring, and daring each other to greatness, and we're doing it again! Same venue, same energy, same ambition to challenge convention, with an added half-day strategy lab exclusively for marketing leaders. We're also excited to have TrustRadius and Boomerang as founding sponsors for this event. Early Bird tickets are now available at cmohuddles.com. You can even see a video there of what we did last year. Grab yours before they're gone. I promise you we will sell out, and it's going to be flocking awesomer!

You're about to listen to a recording from CMO Huddle Studio, our live show featuring the flocking awesome B2B marketing leaders of CMO Huddles. This time, we've got a conversation with CMOs Katie McAdams and Julia Goebel, with special guest host Narine Galstian, CMO of SADA. They get into what it looks like when the CMO becomes the chief collaboration officer, bringing teams together, clearing out blockers early, and turning alignment into action. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. You'll be supporting our quest to be the number one B2B marketing podcast. All right, let's dive in.

Narrator: Welcome to Renegade Marketers Unite, possibly the best weekly podcast for CMOs and everyone else looking for innovative ways to transform their brand, drive demand, and just plain cut through, proving that B2B does not mean boring to business. Here's your host and Chief Marketing Renegade, Drew Neisser.

Narine: Welcome everyone to CMO Huddle Studio. I'm your guest host today, Narine Galstian, live from sunny Los Angeles, filling in for Drew Neisser, and we're diving deep into something that keeps us up at night: how to turn strategic alignment from a buzzword into a reality. Most CMOs know the scene. Marketing launches a campaign, but sales isn't always on board, or product development is putting in features that don't quite align with the customer needs. Somehow, CMOs, we find ourselves at the intersection of all of these moving parts. That's why today we're exploring the critical evolution of the CMO role—what I'd like to call chief collaboration officer. We'll unpack how marketing leaders can be the catalyst that brings the entire C-suite together behind a unified strategy. So with that, I'd like to bring on board Katie McAdams, CMO of Basis Technologies, and a returning CMO Huddles guest who previously appeared on the show to discuss coaching and talent development. Hello, Katie. How are you, and where are you joining us from today?

Katie: I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me again. I am joining you from Glenview, so just about 10 miles north of downtown Chicago today.

Narine: Do you have snow yet?

Katie: No, but we actually had a nice ice storm last night, so I woke up to my car literally covered in ice, and it took about 20 minutes to thaw it. So yeah, we're right in the dead of winter—Midwest winter, which is always fun and very long.

Narine: Well, I appreciate you joining. Keep warm out there. So we'll just dive into this interesting topic that a lot of us have to deal with as CMOs. Which cross-functional partnerships are the most crucial ones for you to drive your company's strategic goals?

Katie: Sure. So I think, especially as the marketing function has been evolving and changing over the last few years, we have an interesting role in the company because we sit at the crossroads of so many different departments within every organization. And really, depending upon where your focus is and what the organizational goals are, those crossroads can differ from year to year. Particularly where I'm sitting today, given my purview and really what I'm responsible for, is sitting at that crossroads between product and sales and figuring out how do we ensure alignment between all of those departments as we are: one, bringing new products to market; two, figuring out how do we continue to grow revenue from our existing customer base; and three, how do we continue to differentiate ourselves. And I think depending upon who you're going to talk to within the company, everyone is going to have a different opinion about that, right? So figuring out how to create that alignment so that everyone is on board and also really excited about your go-to-market plan and your go-to-market strategy for the year is really critical, because I've seen it happen more than once where a go-to-market plan is rolled out and it falls kind of flat. People aren't that excited, not that bought in, because their fingerprints really weren't on it. So figuring out how we bring those functions together to create that alignment, for me at least, is really critical to an organization's success.

Narine: So how are you influencing those priorities? You know, putting in your secret sauce, if you will, across all of the leadership team and the stakeholders?

Katie: Sure. I think that there are a couple of things that have been helpful that I found helpful. One, let's assume product marketing is part of the marketing organization, which in my company it is. So part of product marketing is we really are able to bring that voice of the customer, whether it's through NPS data, it's through interviews that we conduct, it's through different surveys that we conduct—bring that voice of the customer back to the organization, which really will help influence not only what the product team is focused on, but also how the sales organization is talking to those customers. One thing that we do actually is we do interviews with prospects when we actually lose the business. So let's assume that they're willing to talk to us and really share in depth. We work with a third party who comes in and interviews those prospects and comes back with feedback that you are never going to get from that salesperson, right? The salesperson's perspective might be we lost the deal because we didn't have a certain product feature. Well, when you dig in a bit more, you usually uncover some really great insights that can really help shape the sales process, the messaging, and how we approach those pitches going forward. I think the other part of it is really just building relationships internally. So ensuring that you've built solid relationships where you have that mutual trust with the right folks who you really need to get on board to help roll out something that is going to gain buy-in across different functions is really critical, and that just takes time.

Narine: Yeah, I agree. I think building those relationships and the trust are very critical to really aligning. And also, when you have that trust and you bring in the data, right, to back it up—the customer data to back it up—it's kind of hard to argue with that. And I find that sales teams, while they may not always have the data, they do then provide some additional color to that data that you can then take back to the product teams for additional refinement of that. When we're talking about the secret sauce and building those collaborations, I have found that when you bring them in early, it really helps. Like you said, put the fingerprint on it. How important has that been for you? Because sometimes marketing teams, I know, are seen as like marketing is doing their thing, and then sales is doing their thing, and it hasn't quite built that bridge yet. When you bring them in early, they feel like they're part of that go-to-market strategy. Have you had that situation where you were functioning separately, but then able to bridge that gap?

Katie: I have not had that function where we've operated separately in a silo and we're able to bridge that gap. What I have experienced is what you described first, which is having people brought in early and getting their fingerprints on it is so critical. I think a lot of us have the tendency to want to be the hero and come back with some big plan that's going to shock and awe everyone, and they haven't seen it before, and they're hearing it for the first time. I've never seen that go over well. So I definitely try to bring people in early. You have to go in and be open that what you put together might not land well; it might not be as great as what you think it's going to be, and be open to that feedback and really truly be willing to adjust based upon the feedback that you hear, because people can kind of see right through it if you're not actually open to adjusting based on that feedback. So definitely bring them in early, get people's fingerprints on it. It's going to be a lot more successful from an implementation standpoint if you do that.

Narine: Absolutely, I agree. Do you have any recommendations for how to turn around an executive that maybe isn't aligned or hasn't been as collaborative?

Katie: Yeah, you know, I think like any other relationship in life, it's a two-way street. And I think sometimes maybe we think someone's not being very collaborative, and sometimes we actually have to look at ourselves and ask ourselves, in what ways are we not being collaborative? Because maybe we're not open to their ideas, and they haven't been open to our ideas as well. So I think that's the first thing always, is looking internally and seeing, have I been the most collaborative? Are there ways that I can improve on how I collaborate and work with my fellow execs? And then I think it comes down to feedback, both giving and receiving feedback, right? So if you're experiencing an exec—a COO, let's say—every time you share something, it seems like it's getting knocked down, well, I think it's important to share that feedback in real time if you're seeing that pattern, to try to break that pattern. And then also, though, be vulnerable and ask for that feedback in return, right? Like, how can I be more collaborative with you? So you can create that two-way street and that two-way communication.

Narine: Right, that open transparency of providing that space and the environment for those trusted conversations, exactly. Thank you, Katie. I appreciate that feedback. Now, let's welcome Julia Goebel. Hello, Julia, thank you for joining. Julia is the CMO of Komodo Health. You've been part of the show previously to shed light on the intricacies of the B2B marketing matrix and purpose-driven marketing. Thank you for joining us again.

Julia: It's great to be back. Thank you.

Narine: Where are you joining us from today, Julia?

Julia: I am joining you from my home office in the Chicago area. So we're Chicago strong today.

Narine: You are Chicago strong today. That's amazing. All right, so we'll dive into this topic of collaboration. And so what's been your overarching philosophy when it comes to collaboration across cross-functional teams?

Julia: Yeah, you know, it's so important, right? We focus in our areas, of course, but really, marketing is a resource, a leader, a strategic partner across many areas of the business. And in a way, I think when I think of the CMO title, the C is as important as the M. By the time you're leading marketing organizations, you've had a variety of experiences. Maybe you've worked across different marketing functions. You know, I like to think about CMOs as T-shaped marketers. You know, you're across many areas. You're deep in one or two. I've also heard the term pie-shaped marketer, where you have two prongs in which you're strong, but by the time you're leading the function, the way that you cross-team with others, the way that you collaborate with your head of finance, head of sales, head of product. Those are really important relationships. And so you have to think not only like a marketer, but you also need to think like a business leader. What is best for the company, what is best for the next phase of growth. And so I think that's the way I approach collaboration across the team.

Narine: Yeah, absolutely. You know, marketers need to contribute to the growth of the business, right? We're not just informative, right? We do that. So do you have any short stories you can share? Kind of a cross-functional win story from Komodo Health?

Julia: Yeah, for sure. I mean, as I mentioned, my closest partner is, first of all, our head of sales. Our chief revenue officer and I are two sides of the same coin, and in a way, when we're not aligned, the rest of the team knows. When we are aligned, the rest of the team absolutely knows. And so I think we make a point to collaborate, to be aligned, and to focus on what the big picture is. You know, I sign up for pipeline and revenue contributions everywhere I am, every company I'm with, and I also make a point to ensure that we are closely tracking and reporting on how the overall team is doing. And so for many reasons, we have to be sensitive to what is occurring in our sales team. Because marketers are compensated differently than sales partners. It's different to have half of your total take-home at risk every quarter or every month. So you behave differently. You have an imperative as a seller, as a sales leader, to achieve. Marketers also need to share that urgency, and so I've always worked to ensure our comp has components that are aligned to how we win. So for example, if the company achieves its revenue targets, there should be within the marketing bonus opportunity, a chance to perform, over-perform, perhaps under-perform. But I think, you know, drilling down to a really specific area. We know that as commercial leaders, as head of sales, head of marketing, we know that when we bring forward the best of what Komodo offers, it's because it's customer-informed, market-needing or leading, and then also it reflects the best of our technology. And so we've worked together very closely to help ensure our product launch processes continually refine. They reflect the customer input that we're hearing as well as prospect needs, and I would point to that as one of the areas in which we've focused a great deal.

Narine: Amazing. I agree with you, and I think we talked earlier with Katie about really open and transparent conversations with those stakeholders. Do you have a secret sauce to building those relationships, like with your CRO? What was your strategy there to building that strong bond with them?

Julia: I've had pretty terrific sales partners throughout, and so I would say I've learned through having great relationships what it looks like when we need a tune-up. And you know, whether you're in your home life, whether you're in a relationship or you have just close allies, close partners, whatever that looks like for you. There are times where you and your partner need to tune up. And so I do a few things. One, I always make sure we have one-on-ones. We have to have standing one-on-ones. But two, I always make sure I understand how the business is doing. There are times where a marketer will bounce into a room, or bounce into a meeting and think everything's going well, and they'll be unaware that we've lost a major customer, maybe we had a setback in a deal that is pushing to another quarter. You have to have your radar up and be aware and sensitive to those types of things. I think the second thing that I've learned, and I've worked on as a result, you know, I'm the child of two enterprise sales reps, and as their careers progressed and as I grew up, I had the opportunity to hear things at the dinner table. You know, probably I learned the word funnel way too soon. Kids shouldn't know that word too soon. But I did appreciate, though, when a role or an opportunity led us to be transferred, and this was in the time when they would transfer people before the remote world, we would have that box or two of collateral that would move around the garage or move from a car to the moving truck to something else. And so that box kind of represented, for me, the things that marketing provides that aren't of value. You know when I would hear my mom or my dad say something like, well, corporate this, often corporate is marketing. And so I would try to remember the sales rep perspective. When we're preparing information, their most scarce asset is time. They have to find a way to get to the next contract. What's the next most important action? We would ask of our sales partners, does it make sense to ask this of them, and is what we produce? Is this asset going to be helpful to them in the way that they seek to win customers? I try to remember that box that moved around the garage, or around the house, that was shipped from corporate, that represented things that weren't, maybe, right on point.

Narine: Yeah, and I love that your parents were in enterprise sales. You certainly had first-hand experience.

Julia: I learned how hard it is like, I appreciate how hard it is to win less than you lose. So, yeah, even a successful seller wins less than they lose.

Narine: Of course, and I have found that joining all of the sales forecast calls has really been helpful for me. Just again, being one-on-one with them, really understanding their challenges with each one of those deals. What are they forecasting? What's being pushed? Why is it being pushed? You know, and then just figuring out, how can I insert one of our marketing tactics, or ABM tactics, to help support progress and accelerate that process. How have you stayed connected with this? Do you join the sales forecast calls? Do you do one-on-ones with the top sellers? What's been your strategy there?

Julia: Yeah, certainly the calls, absolutely. It's an opportunity to hear what's in play, what's moving, what's meaningful, especially in your large high ASP enterprise deals. The second item that I think is really important is marketers need to go. They need to go see, meet customers, go to the trade shows, talk to your top sellers. So being present and visible really matters even more so than it did before we lived in a hybrid or remote work world. The other is, yes, you need to have a few sales reps that you know really well. You want to know the top sellers and what makes them distinct. You also want to know because you're going to need as a marketer to call and say, "Hey, Paul, I got to run something by you. Does this hang?" and they'll tell you, because they trust you, and you'll get the feedback you need. You also need to just be able to sanity check what you hear, whether it's in the market, whether it's internally, and also just share intel, share information. Having that ear to the ground is the other area that I think really matters.

Narine: Absolutely so important to stay connected, both to sales and to the customers directly. I have great relationships with some of our top customers, and I find I can actually go to them when I want to run something or a new campaign, or new messaging. How does this resonate with you? So that's always helpful. You know, I did promise Drew that we would take a couple minutes and talk about CMO Huddles and the value we each get from being part of this unique community of B2B marketers. I'll start. I mean, for me, I've been part of other CMO groups, and it's really different challenges and needs that we have in the B2B marketing space. So I love this community who's able to be really open and transparent with experiences, sharing challenges, sharing ideas, tools, valuable feedback of how we can improve the process, the business overall and really be contributors to the overall company strategy. I also love our chat spaces and also the weekly updates that Drew provides that have so much depth and color. It's just been amazing, even when I can't join, to really feel like I was part of the community. Katie, do you have any feedback on why CMO Huddles has been valuable for you?

Katie: I do, actually. I think similar to what you said. You know, the community of the different B2B marketing leaders that we work with, we all have very similar challenges. And so just hearing that from other people, one, is very validating. And then two, just hearing how they've overcome those challenges can be really helpful. And I've taken some things away that I've applied in my own life. You know, the other part of it is, I like the size of the groups. So we have regular calls. These calls have just enough people on them where you're getting a lot of different insights, but it's a small enough group where you can actually have a conversation. So I really appreciate that about the community. And then, like you said, the weekly recaps that we get from Drew, there's always some good nuggets in there. So overall, it's been really rewarding to be a part of this community.

Julia: You know, community is so important. As leaders in our areas, we don't have a peer. We can knock on the wall and talk to next door, but we have lots of peers in the world, and so CMO Huddles brings that forward to us. The other thing I appreciate about the group is that we have topical areas of focus, so there's always something of interest in a given month for me to join, and the way that the collaborative nature of Drew and all the teams that facilitate, people want to share what's working for them. People want to have the space where you have chat and rules and can share what's on your mind or what's concerning you. And almost always, whether it's something that I'm currently facing, someone else has solved or faced, and at minimum, someone will commiserate. But much more often, you're having, you know, practical solutions as you think about what you need to do next.

Narine: That's right. That's right. So to all the marketing leaders out there who want to learn more about this amazing community, please go visit cmohuddles.com. Now let's bring back Katie to the group conversation. Hi Katie, welcome back.

Katie: Hi Julia. Great to see you again.

Julia: Good to see you too.

Narine: All right, so let's have a group discussion here. You know, we've talked a little bit about how does marketing drive that wide alignment? But let's talk about specific to brand and messaging. So where we're all trying to get fine-tuned that brand messaging across sales and products. So what's been, kind of, your specific method of how do you have it land properly with the sales teams, and how do you bridge that gap with the product teams and bringing the overall company brand to life? So Julia, we'll start with you.

Julia: Yeah, I would say, I mean, this is where the topic of today's podcast comes to life. It's all around collaboration, and we've embarked on a positioning program where we are introducing who CMO will be for the next decade. We've recently celebrated our 10th anniversary. We're really proud of all the work that led to this milestone, and we want to build upon it as we go into the next chapter. So when we began the positioning project, the first thing was to gather key functional leaders from across all teams, so that we had representation and perspectives. And then as we progressed through the program over a few months, going back touching the stone and saying, "Hey, this is where we—this is our update. This is what we've discussed. Here's what we've learned, here's what we've heard from you. Here's how we validated that with customers and prospects in the market. And this is where we're evolving." And because we went to great lengths to be inclusive at the beginning, it allowed us to have reasons to reconnect as the project went on. We're at the point where we're releasing and launching the new brand and sharing the new positioning. So it's very exciting and along the way, because it is a project, and it is quite involved for the team members of marketing who work on it and all of the others that benefit from it, it is not a surprise when you bring it to market, and it's not a surprise to your internal team, because ultimately they have to be the brand ambassadors. So product team, product management and engineering are involved all along. Same is true of our sales partners. You need to have them involved again, checking in, getting baseline, getting feedback.

Narine: Absolutely, absolutely. Katie, you have anything to add to that?

Katie: Yeah, I think, you know, thinking about the rollout of new messaging, a lot of times we focus so much just on the rollout, and I think the most important part is actually everything that leads up to that, because that's where getting the buy-in, ensuring you have the right people included in this process, is going to make that a successful rollout or not. And you know, we're in the process, similar to Julia's company, where we've spent the last three months really fine-tuning our messaging to a specific customer segment, and we just got done rolling it out internally last week, and it was to a sizable portion of our sales team. But that process leading up to it, not only did we include the leaders of the different cross-functional teams that are involved in this, but we also identify who are the influencers within those teams, because you always have those salespeople who they might not be managing a team, they might not be your directors, but they're the loudest in the group, and they're going to influence how the rest of the group sees or feels about the new direction of things. And so identifying who those folks are and making sure you're having those touchstones with them throughout the process, I think, is really critical. The other part is really tied to the rollout. So when you do roll something like this out, you know, what I found is it's best to get everybody in the room at the same time, so everybody can hear from one another. They can hear each other's questions. They can learn from the answers. So try to avoid having those one-off conversations, and make sure that everyone's really hearing the message at the same time, so that you don't get that game of telephone, right, and everyone can learn from one another and hear kind of what are the questions that come from the room? So I think I'm a big believer in that, and making sure that as you're kind of cascading down messaging, you're getting the entire group together in the same place at the same time, so they hear it all and they hear the same story.

Narine: Completely agree on that one. So when you have those discussions and you have a conflict, right? Maybe the leaders of cross-functional teams are like, "Well, that's not my priority or my priority, and my numbers are this. That's not going to help me drive that forward." How have you kind of, you know, tell us about a story like that, if you've had that and you're comfortable sharing it. But how have you also helped mitigate, you know, that conflict from continuing and bringing everyone to the table?

Katie: You know, I think this is where flexibility and openness and curiosity comes into play, because oftentimes, when you have a conversation with someone and you actually dig a little bit deeper, you find that your priorities are aligned. And really, you might just both be saying the same thing, but in different ways. You know, this coming into 2024, so last year, we expanded our ICP, and so we started bringing on a lot larger customers than we had typically worked with in the past. And you know, as a result, some of the I'll call it like the services packages, the different levels of service that we had used in the past, that product marketing was really proud of, that we put a lot of packaging and messaging around some of those things just didn't necessarily apply anymore, as we were looking at a totally different type of customer. So I think this is where going into those conversations, really, with openness and being willing to listen and learn is critical, because we might have been very attached to the way that you know we were doing things. But as we look at and hear from these customers, as that customer set is evolving, what worked before might not be what works going forward. And so really listening both to your internal stakeholders as well as your external stakeholders, I think that's where you can kind of peel back maybe some of the things that appear to make it seem like you're not aligned. But ultimately, I think we all have at the end of the day the same priorities, which is to grow the company and to grow our customer base and to grow our revenue. So as long as you can kind of go back to that common goal, I think you can find common ground and move forward.

Julia: I love that Katie, and I think it's right. You know, flexible thinking wins the day. We're going to have, you know, items in which we need to like, thoughtfully disagree and then eventually agree and commit. And to your point, when you ask the next question or the next question, you can understand why someone might raise an objection or feel that it isn't hitting the mark. And sometimes they're right. If it isn't hitting the mark, we need to, you know, accept that feedback and identify how we make it better.

Narine: Right, and change is hard for a lot of people, right, especially sales folks that might have been with the company for a really long time, and so they're used to doing things in a certain way, or product folks that have been with the company for a long time, and they're used to having, you know, a set of workflows and priorities that were important. And when those things change, it kind of disrupts, like, "Am I still going to be successful? Am I still going to be the hero of this particular product, or the, you know, my sales team?" So I find a lot of that just requires you know that common ground, that open discussion of, "How do we help each other still remain successful, still contribute to the company goals," but also keeps the that in mind, that there's a little bit of that hero mentality, right with every group. So how do you kind of call that out? Do you have a mechanism of how you, you know, give those shout-outs or kudos, or especially with people that really need it and want it in that kind of bigger space?

Julia: Well, you are tapping into some things. You sometimes you need to recognize and acknowledge what people's needs are, and some people really need to be seen, or really need to be heard. It's appropriate to make space for that. You also know at times as a leader, is when you need to start to steer the conversation in a new way, or even sometimes, if it's becoming unproductive, you know. But I think more, you know, more practically speaking, one of the things that I have found serves me well, and you know, I use this in a variety of ways, is there are times where you need to make the plan ahead of time, back channel, and say, "We're going to get into this meeting next week. And one of the things we want to come away with is this," and you could share your outcome. "And so to get there, I think we need to examine these parts. So that's how I'm thinking about the meeting. What do you think? What are some blind spots? How do we..." and you might need to workshop with a couple of the key stakeholders to say, "What do we want to come out of this?" so that you get to that meeting and you don't have surprises or alarm. Now, of course, you have discussion, and it isn't pre-decided, but you uncovered what the stumbling blocks might be for different colleagues.

Narine: That pre-work, I feel, is really, really important to making sure that you have productive conversations when you do get on the call, and then also that you're well-informed already about what could be some challenges to address. And so when we talk about what successful collaboration looks like, how do you measure that? How do you measure a successful collaboration? Is there some quantitative, qualitative measurement that you have used, Katie? We'll start with you.

Katie: I think you just have to look at whether the goal or the objective of the project was met. I mean, at the end of the day, how we get there is, to me at least—and I always say to my team—how we get there is as important as actually the work itself. So I want to have a work environment where people are having fun, they're enjoying what they're doing, they're coming to work from a place of curiosity and openness. But at the end of the day, we also have to meet these objectives for whatever the project is that we're working on. So I think you have to find that balance of both where you're creating that culture of openness and collaboration, and at the end of the day, you're getting stuff done. So I think that's ultimately what it comes down to.

You know, I found that the marketing team—we could have what we think is the most amazing campaign, right? We could have an amazing year. We're like, "We knocked events out of the park. We knocked our campaigns out of the park." We could just rattle off all the great things that we did, but if the sales team didn't meet their revenue goals, they don't really care about all that. You have to remind people of that. And I think this is where Julia touched on it earlier, talking about making sure that her and her team are joining the sales calls and ensuring that your team has an understanding of what is going on from the sales perspective. What are some of the big wins that are happening? Did we just lose a big client, and why? And how is that impacting the overall mood of the sales team as well? Because I think you need to know those things. If you are, as a head of marketing, coming into a sales call, understand the tone and understand the mood when you're going into a meeting or a call or whatever it's going to be.

Narine: That's great. Julia, anything else to add to that?

Julia: Yeah, I just say it's—I love what Katie said—be cognizant, be aware of what's occurring in the wider world. And I think when it comes to collaboration, it's more important to get it right than to be right. And that's a very well-known saying, perhaps, but I really believe the process of getting there matters more than just having the opportunity to say the thing that you really needed to say and you got that in. It has to be about the outcome, and people feel that what was desired was achieved. So it's more important to get it right than to be right.

Narine: Absolutely, absolutely. So now we're coming to the end of the show, and I just wanted to open it up to share some final words of wisdom. So what advice would you give to CMOs that are looking to elevate their role and be a connector in strategic goals, alignment with the company, stakeholders? Any advice you want to pass on, Katie?

Katie: Sure, I would say don't go in with preconceived opinions as you're going into these conversations where you're looking to build alignment. I love what Julia just said about being right. I think that we all have to be open to the idea that our way of doing things might not actually be the right way of doing things. And can we go in with this mindset of maybe the opposite of what we believe is best is actually what's best, and have that curiosity and not have those preconceived notions? Because I think that's what truly leads to real collaboration. Without openness and without curiosity, I don't think that you get collaboration. So I think that would be probably my number one piece of advice.

Narine: Great advice. Julia?

Julia: I love that. And I think you've picked the perfect pairing, because Katie and I seem to be well-aligned on this. You have to enter with curiosity. So if you're joining the discussion, or you hear an opinion that's pretty different than what you expected, of course you have to have the debate. You have to ask, "Tell me more. Why do you feel that way? I'd like to understand this part of it. I'd like to understand your point of view." Ask the questions that allow you to uncover a little more. Take a minute to hear—and listening and hearing can be two different things. Take that moment to do that, to understand.

But I think importantly, when the leadership team leaves the room, whatever collaboration, whatever discussion is occurring, we as leaders have to agree and commit. So we may have the healthy debate. We may enter with curiosity, or maybe enter with doubt about why the point of view is being raised, but try to uncover it and then reach a decision: agree and commit. So that when you leave that room, when you go to the rest of the team or the organization, there is no daylight between you and your peers. Nothing is more disarming to a team or disconcerting to a team when they detect disagreement with leaders. And so you just have to show up, agree and commit to the next thing.

Narine: I love "agree and commit." So when you walk out of that room, there's no more finger-pointing, there's no more discussions happening. You all had the opportunity to discuss, you committed to it, and now we have to execute, right?

Julia: And raise it to your group too, like "We are disagreeing, but we can agree and commit." You have to agree together that you're going to behave that way when you leave. It's okay to do that, yeah.

Narine: Well, Katie and Julia, thank you both for these amazing insights and for sharing your experiences. As Drew would say, you're both flocking awesome. So thank you for joining, and thank you to the audience for joining us today.

Drew: To hear more conversations like this one and submit your questions while we're live, join us on the next CMO Huddle Studio. We stream to my LinkedIn profile—that's Drew Neisser—every other week.

Show Credits

Renegade Marketers Unite is written and directed by Drew Neisser. Hey, that's me! This show is produced by Melissa Caffrey, Laura Parkyn, and Ishar Cuevas. The music is by the amazing Burns Twins and the intro Voice Over is Linda Cornelius. To find the transcripts of all episodes, suggest future guests, or learn more about B2B branding, CMO Huddles, or my CMO coaching service, check out renegade.com. I'm your host, Drew Neisser. And until next time, keep those Renegade thinking caps on and strong!