November 7, 2019

Smartling’s Story-based Marketing

How many languages do you speak? No judgments here—just curious. But, a safe bet would say that the majority of people reading this have a primary language, and then a rudimentary understanding of a second (if that). Now, this is probably fine for the most part, but if you generate some content that needs to be consumed by prospects in other countries, you’ll need a translation service like Smartling. But, Smartling’s marketing doesn’t just revolve around citing how they solve business needs, it celebrates the translators—the people—who make it run, and the stories that each translator has. On this episode of RTU, Adrian Cohn, director of Brand Strategy and Comms, and Jack Welde, Founder & CEO, discuss how they do that.

Smartling’s values highlight humanity and personality, and they’ve found considerable success taking those values to heart when marketing. Tune in to hear more about their efforts, how they engage employees before rolling out a campaign, their approach to measurement, and more. Plus, hear more about their most renegade marketing effort yet: a beautiful, printed book that tells the stories of 12 Smartling translators, both through beautiful prose and stunning imagery.

What inspired the story-based approach?

What are we in business to do? We’re trying to help companies to reach people around the world. It’s very human. It’s a communication process. I would argue that, in a world of marketing personalization, translation is the most basic form of marketing. Speak my language if you want to reach me, right? So I said: hey, there’s got to be a way to tell a story like this, that perhaps allows our translators and our buyers to connect more and really remember that balance between art and science, not just the technology, but also the humanity.

How’d you settle on the book? How’d you start putting the content out there?

We didn’t have a calculation as to whether or not this would work, but we did have affirmation from customers who continuously told us about how important the translators were to them. This leap of faith was rooted in our customers and their feedback. When we went to produce this, it was extremely challenging. We had to send someone to 11 or 12 destinations around the world. There were dozens of trips, flights booked, hotel rooms—very complicated to execute. But what I was really excited about is that we decided to produce and roll out this campaign in a very agile way. We didn’t actually produce everything and keep it to ourselves until one big launch. As soon as we started getting images from Elizabeth, we started dripping them out across social media. We started incorporating them in our presentations around the world. It was a very different way of unveiling a brand marketing campaign, but every single time we dripped something new, we got great feedback.

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Full Transcript: Drew Neisser in conversation with Jack Welde and Adrian Cohn

Drew Neisser: Hello, Renegade Thinkers! I’m going to tell you a quick story, which is isn’t quick and it might not even be funny, but it’s my show, so there you go. We’re driving outside of Paris, we rented a car, and we are racing through the Loire Valley. We stop at chateaus, it’s a wonderful experience. About an hour before we’re supposed to be at this Michelin star restaurant, a blinking light comes on and it says AdBlue.

We’re curious because we don’t know what it is, but it had A-D in it. We think, “Oh, well, it’s an ad for Blue of some kind, whatever that is.” We ignore it. About 20 minutes into that, it starts to flash violently and makes noises. It says “démarrage impossible.” Now we know that “impossible” means impossible, and we don’t immediately actually look it up. We are not the cleverest folks, I guess.

We’re now 15 minutes away. We’ve been told, “Don’t be late, it’s a Michelin star restaurant. You don’t want to keep those people waiting. You might not get your table.” We see the gas station. We read what AdBlue is. It’s an additive for diesel fuel and you’re supposed to have it in there to keep the fuel cleaner. It says “démarrage impossible,” which means “restart impossible,” which is kind of a nervous thing.

But we say, “We’re gonna get to the restaurant. I’m sure it’ll be okay.” We parked the car, and just to be sure, I stop it and then I restart it. Everything’s good. We go to the restaurant, have a beautiful dinner, very fancy. We come back. Go to start the car. Wouldn’t start. Call Eurocar. Eurocar says, “Don’t worry, we’ll send a mechanic.” I said, “Will he speak English?” He said, “Of course, we are French people. We all speak English.” A half an hour goes by. The mechanic doesn’t show up. We call him back. An hour goes by. The mechanic does show up. Does he speak English? Not a single word.

So we say, “No problem. We had prepared with Google Translate” and we start to talk to him about it. And he says démarrage impossible. We call Eurocar back. At that point, because it was about 11:30 at night, they had no one who spoke English. Not a single person. That’s when the fun began because now we’re talking to our phone in English, it translates it to French, the mechanic speaks to Eurocar in French, he speaks back into it to us. And everything kind of works out. The most fun of this was that it’s one of those lemons to lemonade things. He hangs up the phone with a Eurocar, tells us through the app that a cab is going to come and pick us up, and he stays with us. We talk for a half an hour about his family, about where he lives, about his life, using the app.

It was an incredible, incredible experience. I share that story because, one, sometimes you can make lemons out of lemonade. Two, this is an episode about translations and the importance of that. And three, there’s a little bit of storytelling going on. With that long-winded intro, I want to introduce my guest, Jack Welde, who is the founder and CEO of Smartling. Jack, welcome to the show.

Jack Welde: Thank you.

Drew Neisser: And Adrian Cohn, who works for Smartling in brand and strategy. Welcome to show.

Adrian Cohn: Thank you for having us.

Drew Neisser: First of all, Jack and I met, gosh, 12 years ago. Anyway, two years later, you founded Smartling. I always like when you meet a founder of something 10 years later. You can sort of think back on it. When you started that company, first of all, what was it that you were hoping? Where did you see the opportunity?

Jack Welde: About 10 years ago, it was an exciting time because mobile was just getting started. People were first starting to carry around a computer in their pocket and companies were producing different products and services that immediately had global appeal. They didn’t need to be locked up in an English speaking, US-centric delivery system, so I think the thinking was that translation of large products, software products, web sites, more digital marketing, was still really, really hard. A company that could make that easy for people could be a big opportunity. As more and more people have an expectation to be able to communicate with companies in their native language, this could be a really big opportunity.

Drew Neisser: One of the things that’s really interesting about your background is that you spent nine years in the Air Force and went from pilot to a commander. I’m wondering how your experience in the Air Force shaped your approach to leadership.

Jack Welde: That definitely had an impact. First of all, I grew up in a military family so I had experience with that all the way through college and then went into service myself. You’re right—this is a more than 200-year-old institution of the military in the United States, so there are a lot of very specific core values and there’s a constant emphasis on leadership. It’s hard to leave that kind of environment and not take some of those things with you.

I would say that, out of our five core values in Smartling—I won’t bore you with all five of them—but I would say that the first one, which is, “Good today, perfect tomorrow” is a military principle. Go out and execute. You’re not going have all the information you need to be comfortable operating with imperfect information. And in an entrepreneurial environment, get your product to market when it’s crossed the threshold of good. Good enough, but not perfect because it’s never gonna be perfect. Start to get feedback from that market and then rapidly iterate.

The fifth one is also telling, which is “Take care of our people.” The military can’t operate without people. Businesses can’t operate without people. Being conscious of the fact that we’re not robots, we’re people and being mindful of how people have unique needs—let’s make sure we take care of them.

Drew Neisser: Those are great and universal characteristics. I know you weren’t in the military Adrian, but I’m wondering if you had an experience that was really important to your perspective as you approach the world of marketing.

Adrian Cohn: I’ve had a number of different experiences, but one that’s closely related to military service is volunteerism. I was in the AmeriCorps program in 2011. I was stationed in New Orleans and I was rebuilding homes that were destroyed by Katrina and what I learned through that experience was the resiliency of people, especially when faced with great adversity. I had a number of different roles and responsibilities in New Orleans that really helped me to see how that city come back.

Drew Neisser: Very cool. I haven’t said anything about what the company does. You mentioned translations and so forth, but recently you started to develop a new campaign for the brand. Before you got to “move the world with words,” what was this sort of strategic voie? What was it that you were trying to do for the business through marketing?

Adrian Cohn: We are a language translation company and as Jack mentioned, there is a large volume of content that has to be translated today so that consumers can connect with products and services worldwide. 10 years ago, when Jack and the leadership team started the company, the focus was on the technology that we offered because it simply didn’t exist. The technology enables our customers to more simply manage translation at scale.

That was a really important message then. It still is an important message now, but a lot of our competitors have started to adopt that type of messaging because while it worked for us and because technology is really, really important to manage translation, we needed to say something different. So, we started to look at a different side of our business, which is the language translation side, the actual professional translation side. We saw an opportunity to tell a story about the people who actually fulfill the services as a way of telling the story of Smartling as a global company that’s trying to help people connect with their consumers.

Drew Neisser: I think that’s so interesting because if this is an inflection point for software businesses in particular, where they realize, “Oh, other competitors have come in and they’re pretty much matching us from a feature to feature standpoint, so we need something that will differentiate us.” Often it comes back to why, but one of the things that I know about this is that you can’t get there without a CEO who has some courage or who will say, “Oh, we don’t have to talk about the speeds and feeds anymore. We can talk about something bigger.” What made you believe that this kind of approach might work, Jack?

Jack Welde: I do think that you’re right. Anytime there is a successful software company, other people going to show up to market. What’s interesting about the translation industry in general is that the translators are often invisible. They are often behind the scenes. You might need to translate a lot of content, so you hire a translation agency. They might outsource it to a smaller translation agency and eventually, it might get to the translators, but the end buyer typically doesn’t know who the translators are.

Some of that’s by design. The typical translation agency business model is, “Hey, we’re marking up these translations and we don’t necessarily want you to be able to go direct or understand who all the folks are that are there. Just as you alluded to, at the beginning of the year, I said to Adrian and the marketing department, “I feel like we have spent a lot of years really focusing on the software and technical aspects—the bits, the bytes, the features, the uptime, the scalability, all these other details of this. But let’s not forget—what are we in business to do? We’re trying to help companies to reach people around the world.”

It’s very human. It’s a communication process. I would argue that, in a world of marketing personalization, translation is the most basic form of translation. Long before it’s, “What else did I buy and what might my intentions be?” It’s “Speak my language if you want to reach me.” I said, “There’s got to be a way to tell a story like this that perhaps allows our translators and our buyers to connect more and just really remember that balance between art and science, to remember not just the technology but also the humanity.

I think that’s a great place for us to stop and take a break. I just want to emphasize as we wrap up this part that, no matter what business you’re in, we are really ultimately talking about some kind of human interaction. It’s just amazing that it comes down to that. And sometimes I think that, at certain points in your organization, you can get a competitive advantage just by having a better price or some kind of feature that’s really ahead of its time. But then people catch up and it really comes down to what’s your strategy, what’s your business idea that transcends just the features in the box? With that, we’re gonna take a break and we’ll be right back.


Drew Neisser: All right, here we are with part two, take four. We are still talking about an amazing campaign that I think is worth breaking down. You had the idea for the campaign of bringing these translators to life. Talk a little bit about the logistics of this book and the exercise of photographing these photographers and so forth.

Adrian Cohn: The campaign “Move the World with Words” started with the idea that if we were to reveal the human side of translation—the people who actually fulfill the work for our customers—then we could reframe the way that the industry thinks about localization. We can also change the narrative on how consumers think about Smartling because they had known us for so many years as a technology company. We needed to start this campaign by producing very valuable content.

I turned to Instagram actually to identify a World-Class storyteller and photographer whose name is Elizabeth Brentano and she does a lot of work with animal conservation and environmentalism. I’ve always been drawn to her ability to tell stories in compelling ways, so I e-mailed her. I actually sent her a one-sentence e-mail and it was like, “Hey, I’m trying to figure out how to change the world with words. Will you join me?” And within 24 hours, she replied, saying, “I’m interested.” And within 24 hours of that, we were on a Zoom call talking about how she can go on a worldwide trip to meet our translators and get to know them so that we can, together, share their stories with the market.

Drew Neisser: I love that e-mail headline because it’s pretty compelling. Just to note, if you’re going to after a photographer, a compelling headline will do the trick. So, you hire this photographer. She goes out for five weeks, six weeks around the world shooting all these individuals. That’s a gig I want; if only I were a better photographer. Now, the question I have is, as this thing is starting to come together, as the CEO of the organization, where did you think the ROI might come from? How are you rationalizing this program?

Jack Welde: I think that’s a great question. We’ve got to always be thoughtful about where we’re spending money, how we’re spending money, is there an ROI associated with this? We do marketing for a variety of reasons, but a big part of it, of course, is to attract new customers and to retain customers and so on. When the marketing team pitched me on this, sure, I had a moment of like, “What kind of boondoggle is this exactly? And how do I get involved in this?”

In all seriousness, I think this was something where we had a better chance to tell the story. Again, the nature of the translation world is that you might buy from a translation agency and they might outsource it to a smaller translation agency, and then eventually it gets to the translator who’s working out of his or her home. How do you find a better way to tell that story about the translator? We’re always looking for ways to hopefully get some business, drive some business from that.

I’m confident that we will see an ROI out of this because of the fact that we can tell the story and say, “These are the translators that are doing your work. These are the folks that understand your brand. They know your key terminology. They know the story you’re trying to tell. They know what it means to connect with people in their particular country or particular language.” I think that’s going to resonate with our particular buyers. Now, we wanted it to be genuine. We wanted it to be something that was beautiful. But of course, we’re a business. We want to make sure that it’s something that is going to produce good results for the business.

Drew Neisser: So, it was a leap of faith, basically. Got it. No problem. You need a CEO who has a leap of faith with a program like this because you can’t test an idea like this. You’ve got to go out and you’ve got to shoot it, you’ve got to make it happen. I’m curious, Adrian, had you ever done a book before in your career. It’s called “Move the World with Words.” It’s a beautiful picture book for most of you who are listening to this via the podcast. It’s just stunning photography. I’ll encourage all of you to go to and check out the photos that are down at the bottom. They’re just like a road trip. You really get a sense of these individuals’ lives. Talk a little bit about the logistical challenges of just getting a program like this together.

Adrian Cohn: We didn’t have a calculation as to whether or not this program would work, but we did have affirmation from customers who had continuously told us about how important the translators were to them. This leap of faith was rooted in our customers and their feedback. When we went to produce this, it was extremely challenging. We had to send Elizabeth to twelve or maybe eleven destinations around the world, so there were dozens of flights booked, at least a dozen hotel rooms. Very complicated to do, but what I was really excited about is that we decided to produce this campaign and roll it out in a very agile way.

We didn’t actually produce everything and hold it to ourselves and then have a big launch where we showed everything at once. As soon as we started getting images from Elizabeth, we started dripping it across our social media. We started incorporating it in our presentations around the world. It was a very different way of unveiling a brand marketing campaign, and every single time we dripped something new, we got great feedback.

That’s really interesting. It’s funny, I had a conversation earlier today with a CMO—sometimes it isn’t about the big launch. It is about building momentum in making this idea real. Each set of photographs essentially made the idea real because it got you closer to the individuals who are doing these translations. You get the book; you figure out how to get it done. You hire some editors and you actually produce these things and they’re beautiful. Once the book was ready, how did you market it?

Adrian Cohn: Well, there were a few things that we had to do. Jack, you may want to speak a little bit to how we engaged our employee base, but we started to organize a number of different digital and live opportunities to unveil the campaign. On our website, we have web pages that are dedicated to this. will unveil profiles on each of our linguists. We also started to produce two events, one in London and one in New York, where we used the book as an anchor to talk about translation outcomes. But we used all of the content throughout those days to help our customers improve the way they translate. It was a really awesome way to celebrate the work of translators but also be quite active in helping the marketplace advance their own practices.

Drew Neisser: I love the fact that you went to customers. I think that’s great. We always talk about employees, customers, and prospects as priorities. Talk a little bit, Jack, about the role this played you in expanding, evolving the culture of the company, and what you did with it.

Jack Welde: The best campaigns start internally, right? The best campaigns, you’re engaging your employees and making sure they fully understand it before you roll it out to the rest of the world. Plus, it’s a little bit of a departure from what we normally do. We’re a software company. We’re always talking about our cloud-based this and our scalable that and whatever else. Here we’re producing a book. Now I kind of love that. I love the fact that we’re combining art and science and that it’s a very tangible thing that we’re doing, but we need to tell that story.

We had a couple of company meetings where we talked about what we’re doing. We announced that the company internally. We got feedback on it. People could see the process as we were putting this together. And on the morning that the book launched, the marketing team sat right in the front entrance of our New York office and literally handed out one book to every single person as they walked in which I think was really, really great. We’ve even extended it now because the pictures are so beautiful. We’ve put them on canvas and hung them on the walls. The office looks kind of like an art gallery now, but I do think it’s a really nice reminder of why we’re doing this. We’re doing this because our customers want to connect with people around the world. It’s the human aspect of it. Let’s not forget the “why” that we exist as a company. It’s about connecting people. And I think these pictures that are on our walls of all of our different global offices is a really nice reminder of that.

Drew Neisser: I’d love to be in that office. And by the way, I’m still waiting for my invitation to the London event, but that’s okay. Now, seriously, there’s a lot of goodness in this campaign. How do you see expanding it to prospects and using it to help you drive business development?

Adrian Cohn: We’re gonna do a number of things. The events were the kickoff to this, but now that we have the book, we’re gonna be shipping it out to all of our prospects who raised their hand to learn more about Smartling. A lot of companies do direct mail to engage their pipeline, and oftentimes that direct mail piece is not something that’s highly valuable. This is. It’s a beautiful book that I think people can learn something from. Either about Smartling or the translators themselves, something. We feel that that form of engagement will be really rich. We’re also going to send it out to our customer base and we’re going to a conference for translators in a few weeks in Palm Springs. We’re going to be giving the book away there and engaging translators in the campaign as well. And lastly, we’re going to actually launch a podcast about translators.

Drew Neisser: There you go. Oh, that’ll be interesting. I want to be able to listen in multiple languages. All right. So, we’ve launched it to employees, we’ve launched it to customers, and now we’re using it to develop prospects. We’re gonna take a break and we’ll be right back.


Drew Neisser: All right, we’re back. We’re in the home stretch of our conversation here with Jack and Adrian from Smartling. We’ve been talking about this book and what’s interesting to me is it’s a physical manifestation. I mean, everybody’s moved to digital. You’re a digital product, but we’ve spent like 15 minutes talking about a physical book. I think that’s a theme that comes up a lot in the show. Whether we’re talking about events or we have one-on-one contact, there’s a notion of a tactile-ness here that’s really important. I feel like somehow or other, the medium and the message, they’re all coming together. This is just me projecting some of my own personal things, and part of it is because digital makes everything small. This feels big. It just feels bigger than a lot of things. You have this substantive thing. I know that there’s some been some pretty positive results in the short term. Why don’t you share, Adrian, some of the results that you’ve been seeing?

We started this campaign at the beginning of the year. The book came out in September and now we’re in the first week of October. Here are some things that we’ve seen and that we’re tracking. First is earned media. We set out to earn publicity through podcasts, through stories, and we’ve had 86% of our 2019 target, so I’m very confident we’re going to hit our earned media target.

But here are a couple of things that have happened just in the past month. We’ve seen our organic website traffic up 11.4%, which is fantastic. What we’ve also seen is a major shift in the way that prospects are buying Smartling. Before we started this campaign, only 20% of our new deals were including language services. Now it’s turned the other way. 80% of our deals now include language services. By changing the narrative, by talking about our language services, we’re selling both our technology and our language services to our customers. Lastly, our customer base that’s using language services has increased by 6 percentage points. In a number of different ways, we’ve seen a positive impact on the bottom line through this marketing campaign.

Drew Neisser: Jack, those are all marketing terms. Does that feel like real business value to you?

Jack Welde: Absolutely. I mean, some of those are pretty extraordinary. In a relatively short period of time, seeing those double-digit percentage growths is terrific. But also just seeing that, again, the shift that we were doing as a company was moving from just a pure-play technology platform into a true solution, something that was a technology-enabled solution that was a combination of software and services. This is starting to come through, and seeing the flip from a very small percentage of our customers using a combination of technology and services to the vast majority in a relatively short period time—it feels great.

Drew Neisser: That’s really powerful. One of the reasons that we emphasize going to customers with your news story before you go to prospects is, if they believe it and if they start to act on it, you know you’re going to have a successful program. If they don’t believe it, there’s really not much of a chance. While I have the microphone, I going to give you one of the reasons why I wanted to share this campaign with you. You all are familiar, or the longtime listeners are, with the CATS notion of the four traits of successful marketers. The first being Courage. Second Artful. The third, Thoughtful. The fourth, Scientific.

I can play this thing out. The first part is Courage. You had to have the courage here to say, “We’re going to step away from speeds and feeds and we’re going to talk about an idea. We’re going to talk about this idea of moving the world with words,” which I would argue is quite profound today. Just the notion of moving the world, period, but move the world with words. Courageous. Because we have the CEO here, you know that no CMO can be courageous without a CEO standing right behind them. Check and check.

Then let’s move to Artful. There were so many elements of this program that were artful. Obviously, it’s a beautifully produced book, but also in the way that you communicated it internally, the way it became part of the office environment, what a terrific opportunity.

The third component we talk about Thoughtful and you’ll remember that Adrian talked about giving value to the customers in the book. If this was not well-produced, if the writing on it wasn’t top-notch, it would have been a waste of people’s time. That’s the one commodity that the world can’t make anymore. It’s about being conscious of that when you produce your content. I think one of the challenges that everybody faces in the digital world is that we have to crank out so much stuff that we don’t stop and think, “Well, wait, we could focus our energy on one amazing piece of content and probably get a lot of value out of it, probably ten times more value than we would a hundred different little pieces of nothing.”

Finally, all of those things are useless if there isn’t some scientific measurement going on. And there are two things that I heard which is interesting. You got the idea for this from your customers, which is again, really smart use of research. And then you’re measuring it, tracking it in a number of key ways. With that, I’m curious, what are your big lessons learned? Let’s start with you, Adrian. What do you think you learned from this program that other marketers could benefit from?

Adrian Cohn: I’m still learning because we’re in the process of rolling it out now. There are a couple of things, but really the most important thing that we did—and I think we could always do this better—is engaging employees earlier. It’s giving them an opportunity to start telling the story for themselves earlier, revealing behind the scenes development of the campaign earlier. We did do a lot of this. We spent a lot of time, as Jack mentioned, pitching to our employees at meetings and really engaging people in the content that we’re creating. But even still, I think we could have done more to just engage our colleagues in this campaign.

Drew Neisser: I can let you off the hook there. I think I may have mentioned this when we did our dress rehearsal—we did a study of 110 B2B CMOs and 80% said, yes, employee marketing is a top priority and really important. Yet less than 70% allowed more than a month or two for their internal campaigns. We get so excited about this and this is one of the challenges with agility and rushing things to market—we sometimes forget to build in time to get our employees excited. Now, this is particularly important, and I will emphasize this: when you are asking employees to change behavior, to align with a new promise. In many ways, this isn’t really a new promise. This is a new way of thinking about your business. Jack, as you look back on this program, what are some of the lessons that you learned that you think other marketers would benefit from?

Jack Welde: Well, as Adrian said, we are still learning. It’s early in the campaign, but so far, I’m really happy with the results. The product is beautiful. We didn’t mention the quality of materials and the printing and everything that went with it. I think that turned out really good. So, number one, if you’re going to do something like this, really do it right.

I think the second surprise is the number of competitors or other CEOs of our competitors who have reached out to me and said, “Hey, I saw the book. Can I get a copy of it?” which I think is really interesting. We have a good relationship with the rest of the industry, but I love this sort of sheepish “Hey, can I get a copy of the book?” That’s another one.

I think the big one is—this speaks to me personally as an entrepreneur because I think every entrepreneur that starts a company, he or she wants to change the world. They want to move the world. I think that’s the essence of what they’re trying to do. I love the Archimedes quote that says, “Give me a place to stand and a big enough lever and I can move the world.” How are we doing that? We’re doing with that with words, and words have power. Particularly when you’re translating, you’re multiplying those words times all those different languages. I think the learnings are not complete yet, but so far, we’ve been really happy with the campaign. I’m very optimistic that we are, with the help of our wonderful translators, moving the world with words.

Drew Neisser: And there you have it. Increasingly, I find myself talking about successful marketing campaigns that have a clear message of purpose. I just think this one is so profound. One of the things that it takes courage to do is to stretch yourself a little bit when you make a commitment like this and say, “All right, move the world with words.” What’s interesting about that idea is that it’s not a point in time. It’s a commitment. It’s a journey to do it. It was a journey for you all to put this book together, but I imagine as you move forward, you’ll be able to think of a number of ways to extend this idea. So just curious, any insights into where you’re headed with this?

Adrian Cohn: Let me ask back to you, Drew, where we’re going with the book? Where we’re going with the campaign?

Drew Neisser: With the campaign.

Adrian Cohn: This is a campaign that we’re going to continue investing in. Every single person who we have interacted with is really reinforcing just what you said. It actually has value. It says something that speaks to them, especially the people in our industry. We’re going to be doubling down on getting this message out, on helping our translators and the community of linguists adopt this campaign as their own. We even want our competitors to adopt it because it’s not just about Smartling. It’s not just about our competitors. It’s about the landscape of businesses that are trying to reach consumers and enable consumers to do their best work or to enjoy their lives to the fullest.

Drew Neisser: All right. Well, any last words or thoughts that you want to get out here, Jack, and into Renegade Thinkers?

Jack Welde: Just really delighted to be here. Thanks for having us on the podcast.

Drew Neisser: Hey, my pleasure. I love talking about this. Words are important even if I mumble through them on occasion. It’s one of the reasons why I enjoy writing as I get to get the words right. Anyway, to all of you listeners, I hope you move the world with words today. Maybe you’ll come up with just the right word in the right situation. That takes practice and you got to go for it. Anyway, let’s see a couple of asks. You could move the podcast with words by writing a five-star review on your favorite podcast channel. Number two, share it with a friend if you got something out of this. Three, send me a topic. I’m getting some really great e-mails on the subject suggestions or issues that you’re facing in your marketing. And with that, until next time, keep your Renegade Thinking Caps on and strong.